Articles that prove connection between fat loss and lasers

Side Effects, Complications of Various Lasers, Light Devices

Articles that prove connection between fat loss and lasers

PostPosted by Hummbird123 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:29 am

Does anyone have articles handy that show a connection between IPL and fat loss, denting, etc..? I need to print out several different fact based articles to help my my families and friends understand. I am exhausted trying to get people to believe/understand. Part of the problem too is that the laser spread to other areas of my face other than where I was treated and people have a really difficult time with that concept. Thanks so very much.
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Re: Articles that prove connection between fat loss and lasers

PostPosted by Administrator » Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:29 am

Look in the resource section. They should all be there.
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Re: Articles that prove connection between fat loss and lasers

PostPosted by DCNGA » Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:46 am

All of these should have something that will be helpful to you regarding your request:

topic60.html

topic48.html

topic28.html

topic26.html

topic23.html

topic22.html

topic20.html

topic17.html
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Re: Articles that prove connection between fat loss and lasers

PostPosted by Hummbird123 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:52 am

Thank you so much!
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Re: Articles that prove connection between fat loss and lasers

PostPosted by WG1 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:04 pm

Thank you, DCNGA.

Topics 22 and 20 scare the holy potatoes out of me. Especially since the LUX 1540 was used on me and in addition to IPL.

Hummbird, I think almost everyone with gradual fat loss has gone through this nightmare of trying to convince family and friends that cosmetic device damage is real.

My family didn't really take notice until I sent Dr. Berman before/after photos and he guessed IPL fat loss without any mention of it from me. I tried and tried to get them to believe me but what I was saying didn't jive with what the doctors were saying so apparently the natural conclusion was that I was simply delusional.

People who have known me for years and have even known me my entire life found it easier to believe that I had lost my mind than that doctors could be wrong. How insane is that? How scary is that for our entire society? What if doctors told us to drink poisoned Kool-aid?

They already DO! Sans the Kool-aid.
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Re: Articles that prove connection between fat loss and lasers

PostPosted by hopeful19 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:22 pm

What you address Hum, is one of the many frustrating outcomes of this. Having to PROVE that you have been harmed, when all you seek is validation and help in order to get well. I have had the same experience as WG1. People can't deny I have been burned because it is clear, but they dismiss me to speak about it or exert any feelings of despair of it. Cutting me off and telling me I'm still pretty and we are all getting older. The doctor after all is the one with the education and if she said I aged, well it could not possibly have anything to do with IPL or that she badly burned me. As long as it's not "their" face, they can never fully understand regardless if we had all the paper proof in the world. They will still do their best to justify it in order not to have to deal with it. It's much easier and takes less energy to toss off and disregard then taking the time to understand and listen. If you can deny something, then it really isn't happening. I really liked the quote that DCNGA put up the other day, I think that said alot.
"There's almost no risk involved," says Stephen Fanning, CEO of Solta Medical, which owns Fraxel.

The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who do evil, but rather those who sit back & let it happen.
-Einstein
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Re: Articles that prove connection between fat loss and lasers

PostPosted by Hummbird123 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:50 pm

WGI and Hope, you articulate it so well. These are my exact experiences also. The first article DC posted is very telling and I intend to print multiple copies to all those willing to learn.
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Re: Articles that prove connection between fat loss and lasers

PostPosted by DCNGA » Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:03 pm

Since this was co-authored by a doc at a prestigous medical school, it seems it should carry lot of weight.

I have the full article someplace. If you want the entire text, PM me your email address and I can send it to you.

This is an elaboration by this same doctor on this issue:

http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v130/ ... 9205a.html

I am so not good at interpreting this stuff as it may apply to what has happened to you all, but in my not so great scientific understanding of all of this, this seems somewhat telling to me:

This study shows that sub-lethal heat injury causes ‘bystander’ cells (nearby, but not heated cells) to show evidence of DNA damage and suffer significant lethality. To our knowledge this is previously unreported. The so called ‘bystander effect’ occurred when the inducing cells were moderately heat stressed, but not at higher temperatures causing complete thermal necrosis of such cells. This suggests that an ‘active’ cellular process is involved in the heated, inducing cells, in contrast to a ‘passive’ mechanism such as leakage of cellular content because of thermally induced membrane damage and cellular disintegration. To further investigate this, we performed a ‘washing’ experiment where we exchanged the DMEM medium 5 minutes after heat exposure and compared with ‘non-washing’ (Figure 4). We confirmed for both protocols (wash and no washing) a statistically significant bystander effect at 46°C (washed P=0.009, non-washed P=0.001) and at 50°C (washed P=0.048, non-washed P=0.001). The media exchange did not significantly affect the bystander effect when ‘washed’ and ‘non-washed’ bystander cells were compared at 46°C (P=0.168) and at 50°C (P=0.158). This experimental data can be seen as a strong support that the bystander effect is not induced by rapid release of cellular content or debris as expected after acute membrane damage. These findings rather suggest that the thermal bystander effect is an active process in which viable, heat-injured cells induce a delayed signal cascade and/or mediators that damage or kill surrounding bystander cells. Therefore, we like to call this process active thermal bystander effect (ATBE). The putative mediator(s) of the ATBE remain unknown. Although all data strongly support the notion that the thermal bystander is mainly caused by an active cellular process, at this point it cannot exclude with certainty that at least partially some passive process (for example, nonspecific release of catabolic enzymes from dead cells) might be also involved in the bystander effect for the investigated temperature range......

.....Higher temperatures that produce cell necrosis and/or lysis can cause a passive bystander effect. Dabrowska et al. (2005) described a bystander effect in human cancer cells, after extremely high heat exposure of 75°C for 10 minutes. Direct thermal cell necrosis because of high temperatures might result in the release of cellular debris, including lysosomes into the extracellular matrix, possibly damaging the surrounding cells, comparable with an inflammatory process. This is distinct from the ATBE of our study, which is mediated by thermally damaged, but viable cells. The mediators created with either ABTE or with high, necrotic temperatures, such as those used by Dabrowska et al. remain to be determined.

Mild and moderate heat exposure is well known to cause stress response called heat shock in mammalian cells (Page and Shear, 1988; Miller and Ziskin, 1989). Depending on temperature, heating time, cell type and culture conditions, heated cells can generally follow three different pathways. At a survivable combination of temperature and heating time, heat-shock proteins are activated to protect the cells. Heat-shock protein protection follows complex pathways including stabilization of denaturated cytoplasmic and membrane proteins, nuclear structures, and inhibition of apoptosis. Above a certain combination of temperature and heating time, apoptosis is induced despite the heat-shock response. At still higher temperatures, cells die acutely by thermal necrosis, which releases cell debris. Harmon et al. (1990) detected in murine mastocytoma cell cultures an increase of apoptosis after heating the cells for 30 minutes up to 45°C, whereas higher temperature of 46 and 47°C showed only necrotic cell death. Membrane changes in heat-exposed cells seem to be an important alteration, highly correlated with cell lethality (Calderwood and Hahn, 1983; Konings and Ruifrok, 1985; Majda et al., 1994; Coss and Linnemans, 1996).
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Re: Articles that prove connection between fat loss and lasers

PostPosted by Hummbird123 » Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:49 pm

Thank you once again!
My experiences, thoughts and recommendendations for healing after device damage.
post11655.html#p11655 I am Erica now on this forum.
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Re: Articles that prove connection between fat loss and lasers

PostPosted by DCNGA » Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:10 pm

I posted on Journal Watch were the oxidative stress paper is and they actually published my comment! I can barely believe it:

http://dermatology.jwatch.org/cgi/conte ... 2007/413/1

Just scroll to the bottom where the reader comments are.
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Re: Articles that prove connection between fat loss and lasers

PostPosted by Hummbird123 » Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:38 pm

This is wonderful DCNGA! More exposure!!!
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Re: Articles that prove connection between fat loss and lasers

PostPosted by DCNGA » Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:52 pm

Yes, the more exposure the better, Hummbird! Thanks.

I sure wish I was better at chemistry and biology. I've been reading (after pouring over the oxidative stress from IPL paper) and it mentions 'heat shock response', 'heat shock factor' and 'heat shock proteins'. One begets the other, if I'm reading correctly. But what it seems to boil down to is the heat shock proteins can be induced when cells are heated beyond what is their normal tolerance level. These HSPs come in and (I think) take care of these cells by trying to repair them and clean away debris. So, I'm wondering if the IPL can damage the HSPs so they cannot do their job and causes cell apoptosis (death)? I dunno. I sure wish I understood it all better. Maybe what I'm saying here is not even feasible. But the heat shock response is mentioned oxidative stress paper.
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Re: Articles that prove connection between fat loss and lasers

PostPosted by DCNGA » Thu Jul 08, 2010 3:55 pm

Worth reading...

post536.html#p536
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Re: Articles that prove connection between fat loss and lasers

PostPosted by DCNGA » Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:21 pm

I've made this a sticky so it is easier to find now.
"It is a good thing to learn caution from the misfortunes of others."

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