Posted: February 17, 2009, 7:08 pm Post subject: Description of Damage/Device Used
I am going to paste in the stories by Daily Strength members into this thread:
LIST PROCEDURE AND COMPLICATIONS * all members please respond *Posted on 01/15/09, 02:16 am it would be beneficial to have one thread where each member posts
- type of laser
- date of procedure
- how many
Posted: February 17, 2009, 7:08 pm Post subject:
- candela v-beam perfecta
- january - september of 2007
- 5 treatments over entire face
- orange peel texture, pitted and linear scars at cheeks, pitted scars at temples and a few at jaw-line, enlarged pores, fat loss over entire face, indentations at temples, forehead, jaw-line. skin is hyper-sensitive to all topicals - flushes red. changes most notable 4-6 weeks after last procedure.
- sought advice of about 15 specialists in southern california. no real answers. being treated by dermatologist who recommends prescription hyaluronic acid which i have been using twice daily since december 2007. also applied a type of cortisone for ten days to calm skin. dr. feels skin suffered an inflammatory reaction. important to baby skin. no more laser or chemical peels. also recommended red LED therapy and oral antibiotics. have not tried these last two.
- full face fat graft with dr. berman of santa monica june 2008. most of the injected fat has gone away but i feel this is the best answer so i will continue with fat grafts. happy with dr. berman.
- IPL (do not know details of type)
- 3 treatments over entire face
- pock mark scar and mole noted on left cheek within weeks of last procedure
- indentations at temples with fat loss at temples noted months later
i should add that my doctor thought i could have scleroderma, too. i was tested for this, cancer, other auto-immune diseases in general like lupus. i also saw a rheumatologist, had x-rays, the whole work-up. guess what? i was fine just some laser damage
Victor 1977s Story
type of laser: ND YAG 1064
date of procedure: Late 2007
how many procedures: 1
complications: 2 indented lines that became visible within the early weeks following procedure. Volume loss right next to it in my upper right cheek that continued very slowly over the following year.
what have you tried to fix the problems: Indented lines improved in appearance by 20-30% on their own. Had volume in upper right cheek replaced by Restylane
Thermage Sept. 2003.
Thought I started aging much faster after treatment but didn't know it was fat loss at the time. It was subtle but disturbing. Weird raised area appeared on forehead.
IPL (Genesis) Sept. 2005 (thought it would help my rosacea)
This did me in and completely melted/hollowed my entire head. The surface skin itself became very thin and fragile with pinprick holes and even made a few wierd moles grow.
I haven't done anything about it yet and now, from what I read, I fear it's too late.
I forgot to add to my post that I had two Genesis IPL treatments - twice in the same week as part of a special 3-part program this one Dr. was known for - thank God I didn't do all 3! The first seemed fine, but I could tell during the second one (when the doctor said he was going to really crank it up) that something was wrong. Sure enough that did me in.
I had numerous IPL treatments over about six years with no structural damage. I suffer from rosacea. All my treatments were performed with the Vasculight IPL.
The first damage to appear was caused by two treatments being performed at five days apart. It was supposed to have been a touch up for capillaries, which I was told was safe. Not full face. My skin had obviously not recovered from the previous treatment. I was left with two etch type lines from the edge of the crystal. Also the fluence was too high. Over the next few weeks, crinkly skin and orange peel texture developed.
Fast forward two years. I developed severe, highly inflamed rosacea due to topical retinyl palmitate. (Another doctor told me to use this). I had IPL to try and reduce the rosacea. Even though the energies were the same as I had previously had, I developed huge welts and my entire face seemed like it had been singed. It felt pressurized and further inflamed. I developed etch type lines where the welts had occurred. My nose, which was highly inflamed, develop a slight depression and lines on the lower half, also both sides of the bridge. The lower half looks like orange peel and if I lightly press it, it feels as if there is less substance underneath.
I have come to the conclusion, that in my personal case, I have had far too many IPL's over about nine years. My rosacea is aggressive and IPL was a wonderful way of putting it in remission. Mismanagement of my medication caused me to have more maintenance IPL's than necessary.
Also, it appears to me, that treating active, inflamed rosacea might be one cause of post treatment damage. Fluences which are too high and cause excess inflammation also seem to be a cause in susceptible people.
Rosaceans in particular seem to have thinner skin as a result of prolongued inflammation and I would imagine this results in a weaker dermal matrix.
I have managed to lessen the orange peel texture and crinkly skin on my left cheek with red light therapy treatments. I had about eight spaced one or two weeks apart. As I have rosacea, the one week interval was too much. My vasculature can't handle it and I develop pressure and increased flushing.
I asked my RLT therapy doctor about those with fat loss and she felt this was too severe a problem for red light therapy alone. It is only for textural problems.
The depressions on my nose have responded only minimally.
Also, very important, my nose damage was caused with double passes. When having a double or triple pass, the energy has to be much less. Mine wasn't.
It would be helpful if people could state how many passes they had.
Those who have rosacea might like to pop over to rosaceagroup.org, go to the Intensed Pulse Light/Laser section and go to the 'causes of fat loss' thread. We are trying to establish common elements.
I note people here have done a better job of that so far. Wavelength is also important.
There is also some interesting reading there, which you might find useful.
I have had good results and terrible results with IPL
2006 had a series of 5 ipl sessions using vasculight for my mild rosacea. Had good results, but on the 5th session the Dr decided to increase power which worsened my rosacea (but no textural damage).
waited 6 months, and saw a very good laser practioner who decided to give me 2 test patches over a period of 6 months(lumenis 1)...everthing was fine.
Went ahead with the full treatment, (doctor decided it would be ok to increase the power slightly ) During the treatment I complained that the ipl treatment was actually burning my face, but he assured me everything would be ok and carried on.
Well the rest is history, severe inflamation, severe nose swelling, and a few months later as my skin began to recover i noticed my cheeks were covered in pinprick indentations
-Sciton BBL- about seven-eight treatments previously, spread out over 2-3 years(2006-2007), always with reduction of pigmentation on skin and good result
-Sciton BBL 5/2008- power increased at this visit- performed on face and chest
-Since last treatment: scarring on one cheek immediately- indentations a few minutes after procedure (thermal burns?) which enlarged over 5-6 months; 6 weeks after BBL- cheeks deflated, then indentations formed on both cheeks (ice-pick scars), also squiggly lines all over one cheek, indentations on forehead, lines on nose, indentaions and lines between nose and lips, lines/indentaions extending from side of mouth down sides of chin, small tears all over skin, pinpoint scarring all over skin, orange peel texture to skin, enlarged pores
-wrinkles and thin skin over chest
-if I have a blemish it leaves a scar. skin has lost it's former elasticity
-I look as though I had severe acne as a child
Replies to Member's Stories:
Posted on 01/15/09, 09:25 am DCNGA
Here is the thread with the original posts:
Following are questions regarding those posts:
Any questions which arise from those postings should be put here. I will post in one after this from Kane23 to Mecca123.
Reply #1 - 01/15/09 9:26am DCNGA
Mecca - you had two separate procedures? An IPL in 1999, then a Candela V Beam in 2007?
When you had the IPL in 1999, when did the damage stop?
Reply #2 - 01/15/09 1:32pm mecca123
hi kane23. yes, 2 separate procedures.
the pock mark on the cheek happened right away. the temple indentations and fat loss seemed to show up some time later and then never got much worse. i did not link it to the ipl as it was so many years ago. i just could not figure out what happened to my temples. duh. now it makes perfect sense as i know what the damage looks like from the v-beam.
Reply #3 - 01/15/09 3:22pm Kane23 Mecca
can you elaborate a bit more on your IPL experience?\
I didnt even know they had IPL back in 1999. So your second round of treatments with the VBeam in 2007 - did you have those to correct the IPL damage or just do correct other unrelated skin issues?
Also, you said the IPL damage stopped after a period of time, what time period was this?
Reply #4 - 01/16/09 12:47am mecca123
yep, way back in 99 they had it! i wanted to get rid of hyperpigmentation. it was really not bad at all but i was very crazy about taking care of my skin. so, my derm talked me into the ipl which i had never heard of before.
the v-beam was another doctor who i told about the ipl. complications. he told me that was impossible. (i laugh at that now because almost all the docs i saw in so.cal after this happened at least admitted that ipl had fat loss and scarring problems. they had just never heard of anything going wrong with v-beam, although none would discount the possibility like my own doctor did. i loved my skin at the time. i was 40 and had lovely skin if i do say so myself. no wrinkles, acne scars, nothing. my doc talked me up on the v-beam saying it would "build collagen" and help the broken capillaries on my face here and there. so, no, it did not occur to me to ask him to do anything with the ipl on the temples because i did not understand what it was at the time. and the rest is history!
Reply #5 01/16/09 3:11am Kane23
Mecca, keep posting on this board, we're all here to help and support.
Reply #6 (- 01/16/09 11:37am mecca123
Reply #7 - 01/16/09 5:45pm jason1984
Hi, im not sure exactly where to ask this question but i hope its not in the wrong place.
Firstly, i would like to commend everyone on this website for sharing there stories. Life has been so unfair to yous, and you could have just gone into isolation and not make anyone else aware of the danger of laser/IPL. Instead yous have made an effort to be heard and too help out other ppl and to me that is truely commendable and is a VERY difficult thing to do at times. I truly believe that one day, you will all be repaid for all the pain and suffering that yous have had to go thorugh, im not sure how exactly or when but i believe someday yous will.
Well on a side note, i was wondering if anyone knows if anyone got dents/indentations/fat loss on there forehead area even if they only got laser on there nose and check areas?